Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or – for assistance – at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.
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Centralized discussion
Proposals Discussions Recurring proposals
  • An RfC on the capitalization of bird names.
  • An RfC about whether or not the opt-in requirement should be removed from the enwiki edit counter.
  • A proposal to reimplement the Main Page with an alternative framework.
  • A discussion on ways to improve the "Today's featured article requests" system.

Note: inactive discussions, closed or not, should be archived.

WP:FRINGE and self-declared countries

Since WikiProject International Relations appears to be quite inactive, I don't know of any other place to ask apart from here. Is there a way of dealing with users pushing a WP:FRINGE agenda of a little-known, non-notable self-declared country? Special:Contributions/Mountstella (who has also previously edited beforehand as an anon IP) has added mentions to multiple articles about the so-called "Kingdom of Colonia St John", using the alleged kingdom's official website as a citation. I'm under the impression that if a self-declared nation has very little demonstrated notability, forcing its insertion into articles is WP:UNDUE and perhaps even WP:PROMO depending on who's doing it. Has there been any precedent in the past to use as a reference? --benlisquareTCE 14:28, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

benlisquare: Given that this user has only edited two articles under this name and that there's no ongoing edit-warring, I don't think there's a need to do anything further. I've watchlisted the two articles just in case. If the user starts up again, and the user isn't responsive to attempts to discuss your concerns on the article talk pages, then I'd recommend asking for additional input at WP:FTN. Lesser Cartographies (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Albert Levy (soldier)

I am proposing moving and renaming Albert Levy (soldier) for the reasons cited in the talk section. As it is an obscure article, I thought a more public place would be good to seek input on this. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 01:19, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

changing of Wikipedia username

I don't understand what happened to my request to change my username from Cherilm93 to CheriLM. I was under the impression Cherilm would become my new login, but that never changed. Then I thought all instances of my login name would change to the new login name. Is it so that maybe it never happened? I got a confirmation in a message, but everything is still the same.Cherilm93 (talk) 00:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

log out and log into the new name. –xenotalk 01:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Remember that usernames are case sensitive. You need to login as User:Cherilm, not as User:CheriLM. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Well, I tried that, both ways, and neither one works, but Cherilm93 still operates fine. So I'm not sure what is happening. Possibly I am in a very long queue for the change to actually happen?? When login in as the new one it says both ways that the user does not exist.Cherilm93 (talk) 23:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Cherilm (talk · contribs)
Cherilm93 (talk · contribs)
Click the contribs for Cherilm above. Is that you? Confusingly, this edit is Cherilm asking for the current name of Cherilm93 to be renamed to Cherilm. Johnuniq (talk) 23:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

This is so crazy. Cherilm "does not exist", so I can't login that way. I edited the 93 out of my login name in my article in Talk, but when it signs it at the end it says Cherilm93 made the edit. So now I am REALLY confused. I suppose the nice thing is not that many people are seeking out information on this article.Cherilm93 (talk) 21:00, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Both accounts exist now. You were renamed 22 March.[1] Special:Log/Cherilm93 shows that long after that, the old username was recreated, probably because you logged in with that name or visited the English Wikipedia while you were already logged in with the name at another wiki. The renaming only affected the English Wikipedia and the username still existed in the global login system, so you were able to recreate the account here but without your edit history which was moved to the new name when you were renamed. Does it really say "does not exist" when you try to log in as Cherilm at Special:UserLogin? If not then please quote the exact message you get after pressing the Log in button. When I try it with a random password I get "Incorrect password entered". If I try it with a non-existing account then the message says "There is no user by the name". PrimeHunter (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

"Grandma style vandalism"

Been seeing this tag on Recent Changes here and there. Don't remember ever seeing it before. Um... what's it mean? Evan (talk|contribs) 05:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't see it at Special:Tags or in the 5000 most recent changes. Are you sure it's a tag and not an edit summary? Please post an example edit with it. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:56, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
[2] Evan (talk|contribs) 00:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I cannot determine where the tag comes from. Special:Contributions/ shows another tag I'm also unable to trace. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
If I had to guess, I'd say the IP editor is getting creative with their edit summaries. If not, then I have no clue what's going on there. Novusuna talk 02:39, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
It's outside the parentheses, though. How the heck do you do that? Evan (talk|contribs) 02:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Erm, hold on. Evan (talk|contribs) 02:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I daresay we've figured it out. Novusuna talk 02:51, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Right, the false tags are in the wrong place. They should be after the "undo" link in page histories but they are before so it's part of the edit summaries. The generated html is also missing tag classes. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:37, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley

How much space should be discussing his climate change views? See Talk:Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley#Undue_weight. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:35, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Goat Island

Why someone keep add Goat Island in TV channel?-John123521 (Talk-Contib.) RA 03:08, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like something to take to that talk page. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 14:38, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Location of active Wiki Education Foundation page

There is a discussion about the appropriate location for an actively updated Wiki Education Foundation (WEF) page that I would like to invite editors interested in the education program to comment on. The question is whether to soft redirect that page to m:Wiki Education Foundation, where the WEF will be maintaining active pages about its activities, or leave it as it currently stands. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:31, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia "Unvisited" application in Google Play

Has anyone tried Wikipedia:Unvisited? Is it open source? Is the author a Wikipedian? The idea seems very good, but the lack of any links back to Wikipedia/Commons on the Google Play page makes me a bit suspicious. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I'm the author. Unfortunately, it's not open source. What should the wording be for a link back to Wikipedia/Commons? I'll put it in. I just didn't want to make it sound like it was an official Wikipedia app, or endorsed by Wikipedia. Faolin42 (talk) 12:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
@Faolin42: Hi. Would you mind explaining the benefits of closed source? For me it simply means that the app 1) will stop working when you lose interest and 2) it may contain potentially malicious code I cannot check for. If you make it open source, you can probably get an official endorsement from the Foundation, they often like and support such ideas. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:09, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
@Piotrus: Actually, I think the chances of an endorsement are pretty low - the WMF requires open source software for anything it funds or endorses, almost without exception. I suppose it's possible that that could be waived, but I can't think of a reason it would be. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:54, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Note: Someone has (correctly) pointed out that what I said here was kind of confusing. It sure was. That's what I get for typing during meetings. Yes, what Piotrus said is correct - we woudln't consider endorsement of a closed source program. Even then, endorsement is pretty hard, but if you contact me offline, I"ll direct you to the right person. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 18:07, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
The way I l look at it, if the project was open source, we could have a community discussion and straw poll on whether to recommend the endorsement to WMF or not. Won't happen without open source, of course. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia contracts with Comic-Con

I would like to know about the contracts Wikipedia has with Comic-Con. I realised that in articles about stars almost always pictures of them at Comic-Con are prefered (even if there are much better ones), mostly with the logo visible and a link to Comic-Con (e.g. So there are thousands of links from Wikipedia articles to Comic-Con ( So obviously there is some kind of "collaboration" between Wikipedia and Comic-Con, but I couldn't find anything about it. -- (talk) 11:39, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no link to Comic-Con. Wikipedia requires that pictures are properly licensed, and that all but requires that the photographer who takes the picture agrees to release said pictures under the correct license (CC-BY-SA and GFDL). That means that a volunteer needs to take a photograph of someone (usually in a public place) and release it. What often happens is one volunteer photographer attends a major event, like Comic Con, but also like SXSW or major movie premiers, or things like that, and takes a bunch of pictures of a bunch of different people. If you find multiple pictures of people at Comic Con, that is only because it's a convenient public place to take pictures of people. That's all. Also, the fact that other articles link to Comic Con doesn't mean anything. While I count about 1800 other articles that link to Comic Con, I also find that about 11,000 articles link to Roman Empire. That is not evidence that the Roman Empire has contracted with Wikipedia. --Jayron32 12:31, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
WHAT?!? Wikipedia doesn't have a contract agreement with the Roman Empire?!? There goes my aspiration of rising to the rank of Caesar... — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 12:56, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
You can't seriously compare Comic-Con to Roman Empire, the latter is known to everybody. And it can't be just coincidence that when a lot of pictures of a person exist (e.g. in most cases the ones at Comic-Con are chosen for prominent placement. And in cases like Jennifer_Lawrence where even a cropped version without logo exists ( there is still the version with Comic-Con logo used. I looked at quite a lot of Wikipedia articles in recent time, and it is much too obvious that Comic-Con pictures are prefered to others at Wikimedia Commons. -- (talk) 12:59, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Wikimedia Commons is a separate entity from the English Wikipedia in most respects; though they share the same parent organization (the Wikimedia Foundation), the two groups have different goals and policies. That said, Commons will accept just about any photograph that is uploaded with an appropriate license. (Whether that image is useful or not, and whether that image is similar to another on Commons or not.) There is very little pruning of their collection. If there are lots of Comic-Con photographs hosted on Commons, it is because there were lots of photographers at Comic-Con who uploaded their work (or a few photographers who took lots of photos!)—not because of some special arrangement with Commons. (And photos taken at Comic-Con tend to have Comic-Con logos in them because, well, Comic-Con knows their marketing and branding, and puts logos everywhere.)
Looking specifically at the Jennifer Lawrence photo you've linked, it's technically problematic. It was obviously a relatively difficult shot for the photographer to get at all (long distance, iffy lighting), as the original image used a very long lens, stopped wide open, at high ISO. It's very obvious that the focus is just a touch off if you look closely at the original image. Cropping the image magnifies the defects, and poor Jennifer's face becomes conspicuously unsharp. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Jayron32 is right. Though there are a number of Comic-Con photos on Wikipedia, it doesn't mean we have any type of agreement with them. All Wikipedia content is added by volunteers. Comic-Con is just a convenient public gathering to snap photos of celebrities. Contrast it with the Oscars Red Carpet, where only professional press is allowed. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 13:03, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I didn't say that Wikimedia Commons only has pictures of Comic-Con, but that of the sometimes very many pictures that Wikimedia Commons has of a person in most cases the ones at Comic-Con are chosen. -- (talk) 13:07, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
From what I've seen of most major cons (or hell, any place where you can take pics of celebs, like red carpet events), the organizers usually put the celebs in front of a backdrop that features at least their logo, if not their sponsors, repeated enough that you're going to get a pic of the logo somewhere in the photo. Leaving the Comic-Con logo in there also provides some reasonable evidence that the photo was indeed taken there. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:25, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Are the other images better? Looking at the alternatives for Jennifer Lawrence, most of the other images are relatively poor with her looking away from the camera, poor lighting, blurry, or lots of people in the background. File:Jennifer Lawrence at the 83rd Academy Awards crop.jpg is probably the only other really good one (and is the 2nd image in the article), but it's 2 years older than the Comic-Con image. "Chosen" simply means that someone decided to put the image in the article. There is often no discussion, people are just being bold because they think a particular image is better. Mr.Z-man 14:01, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
In this case there actually was discussion at Talk:Jennifer Lawrence#Which image to use? PrimeHunter (talk) 16:28, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
It is one of 224 photos from the 2013 San Diego Comic-Con uploaded by the same user in two days.[3] I guess a lot of them have found their way to Wikipedia articles. And commons:User:Gage indicates the user has been attending and taking photos since 2007. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:43, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Shakespeare's "birthday"

(I cannot find the place to discuss this, so I am entering it here as a fall -back. When will accessing Wikipedia editing-related pages be made reasonably accessible?)

According to our article on William Shakespeare, the 450th anniversary of his baptism is on April 26th. I recommend that it be put onto the front page in one of the categories, e.g., featured article or on this day in history. (talk) 10:38, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, something should happen, but the people who edit in that area have been rather quiet lately. The matter was raised at the wikiproject. In general, you can ask questions at WP:HELPDESK, and find wikiprojects at the top of the talk page for an article. Johnuniq (talk) 11:00, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
A picture of the former Shakespeare Memorial Theatre has been selected as WP:Picture of the Day for 26 April: see WP:Main Page queue#In three days. I'm not sure if the date is coincidence? Qwfp (talk) 11:25, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Not a coincidence. Some last minute planning took place on Talk: Main Page. Novusuna talk 15:35, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Capitalization of theorem titles

I realize most page titles just capitalize the first letter, but I just notices pages for mathematical theorems, lemmas, etc. seem to follow this pattern also. See: Schreier refinement theorem, Zassenhaus lemma. These are names of significant theorems, etc. and each word should be capitalized. What's the best way to fix this? --Yoda of Borg (talk) 02:19, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

My opinion is that they shouldn't be, especially for theorems that do not include the names of any people or places. For example, we do not usually capitalize divergence theorem or fundamental theorem of calculus when referring to them in-line.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:05, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
WP:NAMECAPS and (later on the same page) Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Science and mathematics seem very clear on this to me. According to them, we should only capitalize the person's name, not the other parts of the title. There are some exceptions; for instance "abelian" is never capitalized despite being a form of a person's name. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Creative Commons License