Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

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Contents

Importance scale

Resolved: Updated scale available at Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Assessment#Importance scale

I made a rough draft of a new importance scale for the NBA WikiProject. Its a combo of the scale we have now and the Wikipedia:WikiProject College Basketball/Assessment scale changed for the NBA. I think we should make changes to it and adopt it as the NBA WikiProject importance scale.Theworm777 (talk) 21:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Link to Current pages rating category list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Top-importance_NBA_articles you can move from top to ??? by clicking it at top of the page.


Article importance grading scheme
Label Criteria Examples
Top Subject is a "core" or "key" topic for the NBA. They define and determine the subject of the NBA WikiProject. National Basketball Association, NBA Playoffs, NBA Championship, NBA Draft, NBA regular season records
High Subject is notable in a significant and important way within the field of the NBA, but not necessarily outside it. Important past/present players (Steve Nash)
Mid Subject contributes to the total subject of the NBA WikiProject. Subject may not necessarily be famous. NBA operations (NBA Development League)
Low Subject is not particularly notable or significant even within the field of the NBA, and may have been included primarily to achieve comprehensive coverage of another topic. Individual team seasons of non–playoff teams
  • Core
  • Teams
  • Players & Coaches
    • An article on a specific person in the basketball hall of fame or who is a recipient of a major award or set major NBA record.(MVP,DPoY,ROY, points, rebounds, assists).
      • HIGH
    • Historic person considered fundamental to the understanding of the NBA.
      • HIGH
    • Any head coach who won the NBA Championship.
      • HIGH
    • Any head coach with multiple appearances in the post-season.
      • MID
    • A player who was considered a "star" and/or won less notable awards or set lesser NBA record. (Sixth-man, steals, free-throw %, 3 pointers made)
      • MID
    • An article on any other specific player, coach or person
      • LOW
  • Facilities and Traditions
    • An article on a basketball stadium of historical importance
      • MID
    • An article on any other basketball stadium or facility.
      • LOW
    • An article on a specific rivaly or a specific historic game.
      • LOW
    • An article on a very well known team tradition, mascot, saying, etc.
      • MID
    • Any other team tradition, mascot, saying, etc.
      • LOW
  • Awards and Records
    • An article on a major NBA award or record. (MVP,DPoY,ROY, points, rebounds, assists).
      • HIGH
    • An article on a lesser known NBA award or record. (Sixth-man, steals, free-throw %, 3 pointers made)
      • MID
    • An article on specific year's award(s).
      • LOW

Thanks for starting this. The project can certainly use some fine-tuning on this. There was also a past discussion to use WikiProject NFL-like criteria for assessing importance of players. This current proposal has some similar concepts. Here are some of my initial thoughts on players:

  1. A player with a long career should be worthy of MID. Perhaps 7+ years?
  2. DPOY and ROY are not that major of an award. MID seems more appropriate for all but MVP.
  3. Aside from stats for points, rebs, and assists, I wouldn't automatically consider the player MID.
  4. We should account for all awards/honors at List of National Basketball Association awards, as well as All-Stars. I wouldn't given any more weight to All-Rookie though.
  5. An All-NBA or All-Star should be MID. Maybe 3+ 1st-team All-NBA or 3+ All-Star should be HIGH.

—Bagumba (talk) 21:51, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

FMVP winners should also be HIGH.—Chris!c/t 22:21, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much all winners of Bill Russell NBA Finals Most Valuable Player Award are HOF or future HOF. Cedric Maxwell is the exception; not being an All-Star, I see him as Mid even with FMVP. So I would say FMVP is an auto Mid, but they likely qualify as High due to other criteria like HOF or # of All-Stars/All-NBA.—Bagumba (talk) 22:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
You have a point. I think we should implement a better importance scale right away instead of waiting for more comments. The current scale is not clear and standardized at all. If anyone disagrees, we can always discuss and make changes. Thoughts?—Chris!c/t 23:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Maybe someone can create a subpage with an initial draft, then those interested can WP:BRD the page directly. Once it's stable, we can copy it or transclude it to Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Assessment.—Bagumba (talk) 23:46, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association/New assessment scale draft. I follow the layout/wording of the NFL scale.—Chris!c/t 01:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

New Orleans Pelicans

Anyone know when the name change goes into effect? People have already started moving pages around. Zagalejo^^^ 03:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

The name officially changed tonight at the conclusion of the 2012-13 season, according to each of New Orleans' main media outlets. http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2013/04/the_end_of_an_era_new_orleans.html http://www.wwl.com/pages/16073193.php?contentType=4&contentId=12824151 http://www.wwltv.com/sports/hornets-202679621.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mphornet (talk • contribs) 03:07, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. The first one seems to say that the name change will take place after midnight. I'll keep an eye on the team's website. Zagalejo^^^ 03:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to join a discussion on integrating the WNBA infobox into the Basketball biography infobox

Proposal to merge the two infoboxes occuring here. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 13:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

stats.nba.com

I was just going to use {{basketballstats}} for Phil Jackson, but then I found that his link is not the usual format of http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=phil_jackson but instead http://stats.nba.com/playerProfile.html?PlayerID=77106 I hope NBA.com doesnt mess up all of their previous working links (again).—Bagumba (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. Every time I try to click on an NBA.com infobox link, I get a message that says, "An error (500 Internal Server Error) has occured in response to this request." Zagalejo^^^ 02:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Your's might be a different issue, since when you go to http://www.nba.com/players/ all the links seem to have 500 error. FWIW, the URLs there are still the same format as the ones we are using for active players.—Bagumba (talk) 06:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
On the other hand, if you go to nba.com then click on Players->Historical Player Search, those all point to stats.nba.com links now. At least links like the ones at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar of the format http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=kareem_abdul-jabbar are still working (for now).—Bagumba (talk) 06:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

From what I've seen, the stats.nba.com pages are more accurate. I'm finding that a lot of the regular NBA.com profiles have rounding errors. Zagalejo^^^ 05:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm wary of changing our templates to use stats.nba.com when its url is based on a numeric ID and not a player's name. I've seen too many sites change their ID schemes and not provide redirects. I'm still hoping that they will eventually just incorporate the new stats into the old profile URLs.—Bagumba (talk) 06:20, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Who to list as NBA owner

Resolved: Articles refer to "Jerry Buss family trust" as owner.

As most teams have multiple owners or owned by a group or corporation, who is usually listed in Template:NBAOwners? In the case of the Los Angeles Lakers, Jerry Buss' kids all supposedly inherited the team (equally?) after his death. Jeanie Buss represents the team at the NBA Board of Governors, but Jim Buss is head of basketaball operations. Depending on the article, the Lakers owner can be listed as "Jeanie Buss and family" (Template:NBAOwners), "Jim Buss" (2012–13 Los Angeles Lakers season) or "Buss Family" (Los Angeles Lakers). What should be the convention?—Bagumba (talk) 18:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what criteria have been used to list people on that template. The team media guides might give guidance in some cases. For right now, "Buss family" is probably the best thing to use. When the Lakers release their next media guide, we can see how they describe people. Zagalejo^^^ 19:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I just updated the List of Los Angeles Lakers head coaches prose on this, and I chose to write that the Lakers are majority-owned by the Buss family trust. There is no one true majority-owner. --K.Annoyomous (talk) 23:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Playoff stats leaders for a given year

In playoffs stats tables for some bios like Kobe_Bryant#Playoffs, an entry is marked "Led the league". Since each team plays a different number of games, and there is no set minimum, this designation seems trivial. I doubt many sources outside of stats databases mention it. I propose to remove them.—Bagumba (talk) 17:45, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I've seen lists of playoff leaders in a few places. (My local newspaper, for one, has such lists.) However, it's not really essential info. Short bursts of production are often favored over steady production throughout the playoffs. A guy who puts up big numbers while his team is swept in the first round can end up as the leader in a category for the whole playoffs. Zagalejo^^^ 16:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, aside from a stats listing during that year's playoffs, I dont think any source note its significance after the fact. WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE seems to be the relevant principles against its inclusion.—Bagumba (talk) 19:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:NBAOwners

Note: Refactored from #Who to list as NBA owner.—Bagumba (talk) 19:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

The template refers to Jerry Buss, which makes sense for wholesale purposes absent an article about the Buss family trust. However, I don't think it is appropriate to remove the template from the living individual members of that trust as User:Bagumba just did based on this limited discussion. They might not be FULL owners of an NBA team, but they are participating in the ownership of a team. Trackinfo (talk) 18:56, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I usually only leave navboxes if the article is a linkable item in the navbox. Consider it Wikipedia:Not everything needs a navbox. However, as the articles you refer to aren't overloaded with navboxes, I wouldnt strongly object.—Bagumba (talk) 19:03, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Duplicate article

A user just created Bobby Lewis (basketball) for the same subject as the existing Bob Lewis (basketball, born 1945). Not sure how this is handled and doubt I could do it on an iPad, so I wanted to see if someone could merge/delete these. Rikster2 (talk) 00:01, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I suppose we could just redirect it to the other article. Was the other Bob Lewis (Bob Lewis (basketball, born 1925)) ever known as Bobby? Zagalejo^^^ 00:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Redirected. Bb-reference has Bobby so I didn't to check Bob Lewis for an article. Wizardman 01:34, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Any objection to renaming the article to "Bobby Lewis (basketball)", as Bobby appears to be his WP:COMMONNAME.—Bagumba (talk) 01:44, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
this Lewis was known as both over his college and pro career - I think the year needs to be present regardless as "Bob" and "Bobby" are too similar. Rikster2 (talk) 03:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Moved to Bobby Lewis (basketball, born 1945). Leaving the year seems weird when there is no other Bobby Lewis that plays basketball, but since we're combining Bob, Bobby, Robert, etc at Robert Lewis, maybe it makes sense. Too trivial to spend more time on it, so went with Rikster2's suggestion.—Bagumba (talk) 03:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on which project overseas WNBA

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball#WNBA. —Bagumba (talk) 02:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

NBA D-League finals MVP history

Does anyone know how to find the past winners of the NBA D-League Finals MVP Award? I am assuming a bio that I do (Glen Rice, Jr.) has won it this year for averaging 29 pt, 11.5 rb, 4 ass, 3 st, and 3.5 bl in the finals sweep. That is about the most important D-League template that does not exist.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:56, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure there is such an award? Zagalejo^^^ 04:17, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
There is a redlink in the table at NBA Development League Most Valuable Player Award suggesting it exists. However, even today's official game summary made no mention of such an award.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:52, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I see one article that mentions Curtis Stinson as a past winner [1], but nothing else. A usbasket.com page from 2008 says "The D-League doesn't award a Finals MVP". [2] Zagalejo^^^ 05:12, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation issue

I have a rather confusing situation. While working on a list, I came across a Don Martin who played in the 1940s without an article. I tried Don Martin (basketball), but that is Dino Martin, a player who not only also played in the late 1940s, but both were born in 1920, so even that disambiguation option does not work. What to do here? I'm thinking a redirect to Dino Martin for the player-coach and having Don Martin (basketball) be the other guy may be best, but am not positive. Wizardman 00:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

That's probably OK. The Boston College coach was commonly known as Dino. Otherwise, you might end up with something really complicated. (By the way, the Boston College coach died almost fourteen years ago. I'll correct that article shortly.) Zagalejo^^^ 01:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Done. Hopefully there aren't any more hidden like that. Wizardman 02:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Juwan Howard WP:TFA

Juwan Howard is on the main page for WP:TFA right now.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Template request for NBA Draft Combine

I forgot to make sure that no one knows about the template I am requesting. Comment at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Template_request_for_NBA_Draft_Combine if I should not be making this request.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 10:09, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Is such a template really necessary/desired? The NBA Combine isn't nearly as high profile as the NFL version IMO. I think combine scores are a very minor part of a player's history. Rikster2 (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I have never seen the NFL combine on TV, but at least two days of NBA Combines were aired on ESPN2.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
You having seen two days' worth of extraneous ESPN2 coverage does not mean anything in regards to each respective league's combine importance. The NFL Draft combine is a major, major deal. The NBA's really isn't. I don't think this template is worth creating. More article fluffery IMHO. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:10, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I never heard of the NBA draft combine until last year, whereas the NFL draft combine has been a big deal for years. However, the template is not a statement about the combines, but rather one about a player's measurements at a point in time. A template would give us a nice standardized way to present pre-draft measureables. They are out there in secondary sources and we, as a tertiary source, are suppose to be summarizing those sources. 4 (Burke, Hardaway, Pressey, Rice, but not Hummer) of the 5 guys that I write were at the combine. I would prefer to present pre-draft measurables in a standardized way. The template is not my attempt to authenticate the NBA draft combine. It is a way for me to present pre-draft measurables in a standardized way regardless of the NBA-NFL combine relative significances.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:41, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm not so sure about this. Beyond height and weight, most of these figures aren't commonly discussed, except in extreme cases. Zagalejo^^^ 16:45, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Why are pre-draft measurables important? Players have height/weight listed by their college, then by their pro team. I agree with Zag that nobody cares about standing vertical or any of the other stuff except for the few weeks leading from the combine to the Draft. Having too much extraneous "stuff" in an article obscures the important information in my opinion. Rikster2 (talk) 17:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
As with anything else on WP, we judge "Who cares" by whether there are a lot of secondary sources. Obviously a lot of people care about vertical leap, wingspan, etc.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:57, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Whatever. Nobody gives a crap about this stuff beyond the window between the combine and the draft. Specialized news sources will always fill in when no real news exists - it's one of the many flaws with the current GNG. But whatever, you are going to do what you want to do anyway. Rikster2 (talk) 18:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
How is the claim that "Nobody gives a crap about this stuff beyond the window between the combine and the draft." any different than the NFL?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:53, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Flat out I am not in favor of adding this information as a rule to basketball articles. I really don't think it adds anything to NFL articles today. If everyone else like the idea, great - do it, but I am registering an opinion that this is an editorial choice made by the football project that I don't think we should follow. I don't have an issue with noting cases where combine performance led to some rise in draft stock (like Miles Plumlee last year), but otherwise it is just extraneous IMO. Rikster2 (talk) 16:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

  • Add the info when it makes a difference. That is a slippery slope. There are probably 6-10 guys who should have the information in their articles every year then. So why not have a template.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
    • It can be in prose as needed, with an explanation of why certain measurements made a difference, e.g. a quote that he was faster that expected, as strong as some other star player in the past, etc. Adding a template invites editors to indiscriminately add raw combine measurements to a bio, and adding a box for something that needs to be explained in prose adds an undue perceived importance to these numbers.—Bagumba (talk) 18:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Issue with statistics showing on basketball biography infobox

Hello - I recently created Craig Shelton and have not been able to get his NBA stat totals to display in his infobox - can anyone tell what I am doing wrong? Thanks for the help. Rikster2 (talk) 12:09, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

You missed to write something at the career_end. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 13:25, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Order of Most Improved vs All-NBA in infobox highlights

There have been some recent changes at Paul George regarding this issue. A previous discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Archive_20#Order_of_NBA-specific_highlights determined that Most Improved was not one of the more notable honors, and should be listed lower. This more recent edit added it above his All-NBA third. IMO, even a third-team All-NBA is more notable than Most Improved. All-NBA honors that leagues top players, whereas Most Improve just says you got a lot better without any claims as to a players actual standing in the league. It would be nice to get some consistency, if feasible.—Bagumba (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Request to increase club threshold on Infobox: basketball biography

Resolved: Increased to 40.

I was editing Isaiah Morris and found out the hard way that the limit to the number of clubs that can be added to the basketball infobox is 25 (Morris played for 26 clubs). I'd like to request that the threshold be raised so that no matter how many clubs a player competed for it can handle them (maybe raise to 40?). What is happening is that editors are getting around the infobox limits by entering a bunch of clubs in entry 25 - whih looks awful. I think if we raise it to 40 that will cover 99.9% of players' careers and keep the infobox clean. Can we just do this or is some sort of consensus needed? Anyone know how to up the limit? Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 02:37, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Links to teams' season articles in bios

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:LeBron_James#Linking_teams. —Bagumba (talk) 05:34, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Enhancements to Template:Infobox basketball biography

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball#Proposal for coaches' infoboxes. —Bagumba (talk) 06:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Listing jersey numbers for each team

Some bios have been edited such as this one that place a player's respective jersey number next to each team in his career history. I think it's too much information for an infobox to break down by team. It can be discussed in prose, like it is in Derek Fisher. Also, the new parameter "career_number" can be used to list all the numbers a player has worn in his career. If it's important enough, it should just be a dedicated column. Otherwise, the format looks clumsy.—Bagumba (talk) 04:51, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I noticed this change at LeBron James and did not revert it. I think it is clumsy clutter.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:24, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
I've undone all the changes for now. Can add back if there is consensus. I applaud editors for being bold, but widespread changes are usually better discussed first to save the initial effort to edit and then the subsequent undos.—Bagumba (talk) 06:01, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Not in favor of adding these. They look cluttered. The only change to the club history that might be worth debating would be a dedicated field for league or country, to replace the paranthetical statements. Rikster2 (talk) 11:18, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Trivial and apart from superstars do often change. -DJSasso (talk) 12:23, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I thought readers should know the number of tye player of the team. If I caused disorganization to the pages I edited, I apologize for causing this. lego_death_star — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego death star (talk • contribs) 18:24, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Manu Ginóbili

FYI, a Requested Move discussion was started on Talk:Manu Ginóbili.—Chris!c/t 19:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)