Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects

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Original discussion: Use and persistance of redirects

original discussion

...{{Col-stub}}...

This template is redirected to {{Color-stub}}. I've orphaned the template so it is suitable for deletion based on the "redundant template" argument. Courtland 11:34, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

This one's a tricky one. The original proposal was to make col-stub, for articles on colours, since that way it avoided people typing colour-stub and getting a red link, or color-stub and getting a redlink. I made col-stub, in line with the proposal, only to find out within minutes that color-stub had already been made. If anything, I'd favour deleting color-stub and retaining col-stub, or replacing col-stub with colour-stub (as a redirect to color-stub). In any case, it's a lot more complicated than simply a redundant duplicate. Grutness...wha? 14:06, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

expansion of discussion

We can probably think of stub-template redirects in one of two major groups: transient and permanent.

  • Transient redirects: these are created when there is a preferred target with the intention of retiring the redirected term as soon as possible/feasible.
  • Permanent redirects: these are created to overcome problems in application of the stub templates so as to reduce the fragmentation of categorized stubs in general.

Of the redirects listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types, my impression of the classification goes like this:

a notation of unloaded indicates that there were 0 articles found linked to the template on the date indicated

Transient

  • Baseball stub
  • Biostub
  • Canada-place-stub
  • Comp-stub
  • Dance stub unloaded 22 May
  • East-Slavic-History-stub
  • Edustub unloaded 22 May
  • Grisons-geo-stub
  • Health-stub
  • Hong Kong-geo-stub
  • Hong Kong-stub
  • Ice Hockey stub unloaded 22 May
  • Ireland-place-stub
  • Kde-stub
  • Mathstub
  • Mormonstub unloaded 22 May
  • Mov-stub
  • Naval-stub
  • Opera singer stub unloaded 22 May
  • Pol-stub
  • Poli-substub
  • Roc-stub
  • Rugby Union stub unloaded 22 May
  • SA-stub
  • Sg-geo-stub unloaded 5 June
  • Sub-stub
  • Substubs
  • SectStub
  • Section stub
  • Sikhi:stub unloaded 22 May
  • Tennis stub
  • Uk-stub
  • Uk-geo-stub
  • Un-stub
  • Us-geo-stub
  • Video-stub

Permanent

  • Arms-stub
  • Athlete-stub
  • Biology-stub
  • Can-stub
  • Car-stub
  • Carpentry-stub
  • Clothing-stub
  • Col-stub
  • Denmark-stub
  • History-stub
  • HK-bio-stub
  • HK-edu-stub
  • HK-geo-stub
  • HK-gov-stub
  • HK-stub
  • HK-tv-stub unloaded 22 May
  • Incomplete
  • Language-stub
  • Manga-stub
  • Manufacturing-stub
  • Maths-stub
  • Mormon-stub unloaded 22 May
  • Movie-stub
  • NYCS-stub
  • Philosophy-stub
  • Politics-stub
  • Religion-stub
  • ROC-stub
  • ROC-geo-stub
  • Russian-hist-stub
  • Scotland-geo-stub
  • Singapore-stub
  • Space-stub
  • Subway-stub
  • Typography-stub
  • Uganda-geo-stub
  • Wales-geo-stub
  • Whedon-stub

Not sure

  • Sect-stub
  • Section-stub


Interesting (and good) idea. I've added a couple more. Feel free to move them around or debate any which I may have put in the wrong place!Grutness...wha? 00:50, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

In making this listing is occurs to me that more redirects might not be a bad thing and that some primary-secondary pairs might benefit from being switched. It's been pointed out that one reason for using short/cryptic template codes is to reduce typing when doing stub sorting. In cases where there is a short/cryptic code and a full-name code, my thinking is that the short/cryptic one should be redirected to the full-name one. For instance, rather than {{Language-stub}} redirecting to {{Lang-stub}}, shouldn't this be reversed, so that {{Lang-stub}} redirects to {{Language-stub}}? If this were applied consistently, then a bot could be constructed (beyond my knowledge/ability, though) that could take a thesaurus of terms and update the short/cryptic codes to the full-name codes without human intervention.

Courtland 13:37, 2005 May 16 (UTC)
I've moved one of the ones you put there - maths-stub - to permanent. Maths is the usual abbreviation for mathematics in most "British English" speaking countries, so it's on par with film-stub/movie-stub. I suspect that clothing-stub should also be a permanent, but I'd love to be rid of Grisons-geo-stub! Grutness...wha? 01:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I've found the clothing stub pretty useful, in fact by sheer numbers I use it more then the fashion stub it directs to. In a perfect world I'd have the fashion stub redirect to the clothing stub. Or break it completely and let the clothing stub handle belt loops and Bermuda shorts and have the fashion stub take eye liner and bowl cuts ;). Anyway, I moved to the permanent section, if someone feels differently feel free to move it to another area. Rx StrangeLove 01:11, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Another one that might be a permanent... SA-stub. If the United Kingdom has UK-stub and the United States has US-stub, then why has South Africa got sa-stub rather than SA-stub? Grutness...wha? 04:00, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I think that we need to talk to the WikiMedia m:developers about any performance impact redirected stub templates might have before we decide to keep to many of them around. I have noticed that when you edit a page that uses a template that is redirected, that you see both the redirected and target template in the list of templates below the edit box. That suggests to me that for every edit of a page with a redirected template that there will be at least two database calls instead of one, and for every time that the target template gets edited that they will be two database calls per page that the template is on as the cache is refreshed (much like the problem with Meta-templates). BlankVerse 06:03, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I also think that the Stub-softing WikiProject probably aught to come up with a more consistent naming policy and document it someplace to help decide which stubs to keep and which to delete (as well as in the creation of new topic stubs, etc.). BlankVerse 06:07, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

On the topic of server load, then, I've unloaded several of the templates in the transient list above, most being those that do not abide by the informal naming criteria ("Topic"-stub; no spaces). The unloaded transients could potentially go onto WP:TFD if there is general agreement. Courtland 03:24, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

I've moved the awful grison-geo-stub to transient. Why one Swiss canton sould have such a stub when Switzerland as a whole only has about 100 stubs is beyond me (the same person who made this also made several other useless templates which have been tfd'd on Switzerland and Andorra). Grutness...wha? 06:31, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
Conversation on a related subject on the WSS/C page has reminded me... why does Singapore-stub redirect to Sg-stub, and not the other way round? Grutness...wha? 09:32, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
We don't have a guideline on redirect-target naming conventions. Would you prefer to have the "editor-friendly" (i.e. short) name re-direct to the "user-friendly" (i.e. long) name, or vice versa? Courtland 14:21, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)
In most cases, the short to the long. In some cases, like sg-stub, I'd also argue about the term "editor friendly" - it's less typing (actually, virtually the same if you're using copy & paste), but far harder to remember! Grutness...wha? 00:38, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Two points

  • Lao-stub isn't from a misspelling - "Lao" is the name of the country in Laotian.
    • If you haven't already changed it, I will. Thanks. Courtland 00:27, 2005 Jun 27 (UTC)
  • Shouldn't it be "Redirect from alternative name"? Alternate means swapping between two; alternative means other. Grutness...wha? 08:19, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • The template title uses "alternate"; I've not looked at the history of it to determine whether there's rhyme or reason to the choice. Perhaps there's a bold change that is needed :) Courtland 00:27, 2005 Jun 27 (UTC)

apologies to the red-green color blind for the new coloration (end of post)

Singapore

I note that Singapore-stub redirects to Sg-stub and Sg-geo-stub redirects to Singapore-geo-stub. Can I suggest we swap one around for consistency? (My vote would be making the Sg ones the redirects.) Grutness...wha? 10:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


Anthro

suggest linking Anthro to Anthropomorphic and Athropomorphology, and have each of those link to Anthropomorphism. (Additional info on Anthropomorphology: the study of Anthropomorphism.) Foxy 11:20, 07 February 2006 (UTC)

Um...I'm not sure if you realise what this list is - it's a list of redirects to stub templates. There is no stub template on anthropomorphism, anthropomormology or anthropomorphic; neither could we redirect one template to three others. What's more, since there's unlikely to be anywhere near 60 stubs on anthropomorphism, it wouldn't be reasonable to have a stub template for it, especially since it can quite easily be convered by other stub templates. Grutness...wha? 00:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Possible deletion

I have started a discussion on replacing this page with the use of redirect templates now that they work again. Caerwine Caer’s whines 18:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

All listings checked

All the links on this page have now been checked and relevant templates added to Category:Stub template redirects. Please do not use this page any longer to list stub template redirects; add redirected templates to Category:Stub template redirects by using

<noinclude>[[Category:Stub template redirects]]</noinclude>

Cheers, Her Pegship (tis herself) 05:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)








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